Gulf war vet - Drs checking for agent orange harm?

Agent orange is blamed for what EGBE does
It is not a match for what happened to the Vietnam vet
My thoughts & why
'Mother Margaret'

Well, this VA office was confused, at least:

Hubby got a big packet of stuff in the mail today.  Lab/Radiology appts on August 10th...and....get this.....  A form to fill out regarding his exposure to.....drum roll please.......

Agent Orange!!!! That appt scheduled for August 17th.  Along with all kinds of info for Vietnam Vets.  

Needless to say, we called the VA to question this lol.  The girl I talked to was very nice...they had already caught their mistake, but the paperwork was already in the mail to us.

So the lab/radiology appts will remain, they'll reschedule the appt for the Gulf issues.  But hey, we're one step closer to an appt he's been waiting almost a year to get, so we're cool..... dar

gulfwarvets.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/200681.html
Many in WWII were exposed to n-butyl ethers such as 2-butoxyethanol or diethylene glycol monobutyl ether in WWII. I suspect the diabetes and overweight issues that are becoming epidemic in our nation are 'birth defects' from our parents who were harmed by it ... then we get our own exposures so easily (in and out of the military) ... so ... I believe that overall we are dealing with an autoimmune metabolic problem and to find the harm of this chemical, those with direct exposure need to check for these things to find 'the common denominator: the fatigue. Doctors say they don't know what the fatigue is. If it's from this chemical exposure it is autoimmune hemolytic anemia that doesn't show up in the regular bloodwork - more things have to be checked for.

When I heard that the only thing that is a stand out harm for the gulf war syndrome vets (more than the general population) was Lou Gehrig's Disease, I wondered about 2 things. Was it autoimmune? Apparently YES ... and, what could have been Lou Gehrig's exposure to n-butyl ethers, even 2-butoxyethanol? Invented in the 1930s ... it is very possible and should be checked into.
First link info ... the 'short list' of ailments, CNS & Fatigue:
Did you ever compare notes to how the Vietnam Vets' harm is similar to the 'gulf war syndrome' vets' harm? I think the dioxin is getting the wrap for what 2-butoxyethanol does.

I've heard the gulf war vets share about these ailments:

CNS Effects:
Difficulty Concentrating
Short Term Memory Loss
Difficulty Sleeping
Constantly Irritable
Depression
Suicidal Tendencies

Horrible Headaches  Horrible Headaches - links working

Do you recall any times of severe flu-like symptoms and Horrible FATIGUE?

Chills
Fatigue
Pale color
Shortness of breath
Rapid heart rate * *
Yellow skin color (jaundice)
Dark urine
Enlarged spleen
Eyes burning & hurting

Red blood cells immature? etc
Blood in Urine?

'THE LIST' per research of what happened to the Vietnam Vets - For Sure and Suspected
Significance of Small Red Blood Cells?

Also with this group ... and related to the fatigue would be immature red blood cells. Keep track of the retic rate and see what the age of the red blood cells is. What is going on with the immune system, as well:

CFIDS?

Anemia with small red blood cells?

Has anyone been told they are anemic not as in low number of red blood cells but the size of them? I am a Gulf War vet and have always been suspicious of any symptoms I have had. After a long bout with excessive fatigue I had blood work done, everything was normal but this.
Brave Rifles Gulf War Syndrome forum - healthboards

 healthboards.com/boards/showthread.php?t=150278


What are the size and shape of your red blood cells?

Some replies to his comments - another forum: 2004

"My dad has just been told the same thing. He has been getting severe headaches. Do you get headaches too? I am hoping they send my dad to see a blood specialist. Did they do anything more for you?"

My dad has also been having night sweats. They have run so many tests on him. I think they are looking for a chronic illness to explain the anemia, night sweats and headaches but everything keeps coming back clean.

He has been in the hospital for 2 weeks now. They are giving him tylonel and morphine to control the headaches. The tylonel works for about 6 hours but after the 6 hours are up, the headache returns in the exact same spot. He says that it feels like his head is going to explode.

His doctor said that the red blood cells look like they are shrinking and he has never seen this before. They let my dad out of the hospital for the weekend and told him it was okay to drive. He was driving and got dizzy and almost passed out. Fortunately he as able to pull over. My mom called for help and they admitted him back into the hospital immediately.

I think he needs to see a blood specialist. He is currently seeing an internist/internalist. The doctor has been great but he seems stumped but what is happening to my dad. The only test that had abnormal results was a bone scan on his head. It has abnormal activity which they thought was inflammation. They did an MRI next and it showed nothing. They have taken bone marrow and that came back clean too.

My dad is a janitor/custodian for the school board. He uses all sorts of chemicals when he cleans. He was also in St. Lucia at a walk in volcano where he was breathing really heavy because for some off reason he thought the volcano ash would help his cough. It is probably stupid but I thought I should mention it.

I think I mentioned that his cranial bone scan had abnormal activity so they thought an infection would show up on the MRI but it did not. He is currently waiting to see a nuerologist and I think they are planning to do some sort of biopsy. They were also going to exlore something called Whipple's Disease which I think is a malabsorption disease that may be effecting his bodies ability to absorb nutrients.

He has been seeing an interist. The interist has been great but and getting all sorts of tests done very quickly. We have ruled all sorts of stuff out but not come to any sort of firm conclusion. It is getting very frustrating. What would you suggest. Can anyone help?

Does the abnormal bone scan on his head make sense with chemical poisoning? The doctor said the bone builds up and breaksdown continually and my dad's is doing it more than it should - hence them thinking he has inflammation or infection. Problem is the MRI does not confirm this. They think his anemia (shrink cells are a result of what is going on up there). However, they haven't confirmed anything. He is still waiting to see the neurosurgeon.

He has also been admitted back in to the hospital because of his headaches. They are now giving him shots of demerol. He had some sort of test where they went down his throat to look at his stomach and they are doing a spinal tap tomorrow. There can't be too many more tests that they can run on him. I have spoken to my dad and asked him to ask the doctor about the chemical poisoning. Someone else has suggested to my dad that he request to see a hematologist.

I am 26 years old I have had the same thing with the small red blood cells for 2 years now the doctor told me I am so anemic that my body has compensating by making smaller cells in the right amount of quantity instead of normal size cells in a smaller quantity. He told me that can happen when you are anemic for too long. I am not sure about other diseases and conditions that could be underlying this is just my experience. Von

hi, I was just informed by my dr, that I had the right amount of blood cells they are small. She thought it is just in the Genes, I thought this was probably why I stay so tired. Any word on this problem? luvbnana

hello, I am new to this board.. I was doing a search for topics that had "small red blood cells" and this came up, so i registered. I have small red blood cells and since the DR, has no advice for me as to why, i thought i might look it up. There is a genetic disease that runs in my family and thought maybe it might have something to do with that.. the disease is called. Alpha-1 Antitrypsin Deficiency . I've always had the small red blood cells . Anyone ever heard of someone having small red blood cells because of some other reason, other than being around war? I'm 26 , have two kids, never been out of the country...

any ideas would be much appreciated. Bless you all
1-14-2005
cowboyscarbonco

I was also doing a search about Small red blood cells and have been reading everyone's posts.
I have been going through MANY tests for a couple of months now, all starting because of extreme fatigue. The DR says i have microcytosis (small red blood cells) but I get very little info. He has started me on Iron and B12 but is still running continuous tests -- like 4 ultrasounds (abdominal, renal, and 2 pelvis) and now I have been having severe headaches so he's added a CAT scan and referring me to a neurologist. I'm so confused because he does not seem alarmed, yet with all these tests it seems he's looking for something. I thought the diagnosis of microcytosis was IT!

ITHERK -- I am very interested in how your dad is doing. I don't know how old all these posts are.

If anyone has any information-- please help!!!
Jenmaheu 4-28-05

undefinedundefinedundefined hi im doug. gw vet. ya i have the blood count out of whack and night sweats and the rashes. but it doesnt exist right?? pontiacmech

I was not in the Gulf War but I was just told my red blood cells are small after my most recent blood test. So I have to be retested. Last time I went to give blood I was turned down because of low iron.
Jackson1958 6-3-05

I was recently told that i have small Red blood cells, i too am wondering what that is from. My doc. didn't seem to concerned about it, but i don't know what it could be. Aspen

My Dad just had this happen over the weekend. Not only did he have low red blood count and low hemoglobin (severe anemia), he also had small red blood cells. His Iron was at 11 - when normal iron is between 75 and 200. His B12 was 3 to 6 times what it normally should be. Now, the small cells can be indicative of lead poisoning. My Dad is also a Vet - but from around the Cuban Missile Crisis ('59 - '63). He chipped paint like crazy when he was in the Navy, so that may be the most logical reason. They gave him 4 pints of blood in transfusion - but that is only going to last so long. It got him close to normal. Hey Doug - I'm not sure if you check this, but you might want to look at Endocarditis. It has symptoms of the night sweats and stuff. I believe you. A friend of mine was in the Persian Gulf War and has started to have some problems.
SpecialK422

__________________
For whom does the bell toll? It tolls for thee
THE FATIGUE Who I am
 
The cause of everything?  Of course it doesn't cause everything ... but for what it does do, generally something else gets the blame ... Seldom, if ever, the n-butyl ether or EGBE, 2-butoxyethanol chemical.
 
The way you can tell, is whether or not the odd assortment of symptoms is there. It never causes just one thing ... the whole menagerie of, for instance, chronic fatigue syndrome.  The immune system becomes autoimmune.  The biomarker would be the hemolytic anemia.  It's in the research.  I just noticed it.  Missing link is for doctors to recognize it when they see it & get more medical info.

For this chemical exposure the common denominator

 is the debilitating fatigue that no rest helps.

I believe the answer will lie somewhere in the immune system and the red blood cells.  In the early stages the red blood cells may be ragged and beat up; but soon they should be small sized.  There may be too many red blood cells that are immature.  So, what is the age, the size and the shape of the red blood cells?  And in early years of this fatigue, is there trace blood in urine?  What are the membranes like?  Is there fragility of the red blood cells?

It is important to know this anyway, because if there are too many immature red blood cells, many other medical tests have to be adjusted for that fact.

I do suspect a chemical exposure that would cause such ... as prematurely destroying the red blood cells, and leaving them 'looking different."  I came close to seeing one example of this; but for the most part, the possibility of autoimmune hemolytic anemia is not checked except in the very early or late stages of it.  It could be more common place than doctors think

A good overview on the immune system

How and why I learned about this chemical exposure is irrelevant 

But what I learned may not be.

The proof?  It can only be proved by people who have been harmed - who will look into it and share what they find with others.

2-butoxyethanol harm?

Do this questionnaire   -   Share this info with your doctors
Difference between benzene & 2-butoxyethanol exposure:
Difference between aplastic anemia - or - autoimmune hemolytic anemia
 
Both could cause leukemia,
however, EGBE could also cause brain tumors, kidney and liver problems ... many glandular problems; joint pain
 
Even if someone has died, look at the counts of red, white and platelets.  If the white and platelet counts are in normal range, & only red blood cells dropping ... consider 2-butoxyethanol when the other odd assortment of symptoms is there.

An example of aplastic anemia

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