Gulf War Vets Discussion Forum - Valdez Exxon Valdez oil spil cleanup and similarities to 'Gulf War Syndrome' Vets

Beginning Topics If you find anything helpful here, that belongs to me, feel free to use it.

14 Topic: 2-butoxyethanol KNOWN sources - What about some of the fly/bug pesticides?

posted December 20, 2003

Looking for those who had eyes burning and urine turning dark brown to black and an immediate exhaustion by the next morning. Want to know all pesticides sprayed in area of troop arena and any defogger pesticides used. Anything so hazardous to require applicators to use goggles, gloves, boots, chemically protective clothing and respirators, is too much exposure for troops to be living in and working in all the time. http://www.valdezlink.com/gwv/gws_applicators.htm

By the way, we have another person in same group as Staff Sgt James Alford with same symptoms http://www.valdezlink.com/alford.htm#note Might this be a severe form of 'Gulf War Syndrome'? It doesn't make sense to me to say from mad cow disease ... because per this article, he was having problems before he went to Afghanistan.

Military has known exposures to 2-butoxyethanol. What are they? What are unknown sources? http://www.valdezlink.com/gwv6-14.htm#known

It appears that some of the bug/fly pesticides had the warnings of 2-butoxyethanol ingredients (whether or not these hazardous ingredients were so stated on the product) http://www.valdezlink.com/gwv6-14.htm#pest Now were they ones used by the individual soldiers? Or were they sprayed in a large area that soldiers frequented? Would those coming to the area be at risk, if 2-butoxyethanol chemicals were there? Or just soldiers that were doing the spraying of the pesticides?

Do you have the 'package' of odd symptoms that it causes? http://www.valdezlink.com/scenario.htm

AND what does you blood say? http://www.valdezlink.com/gwv6-14.htm#facts

http://www.valdezlink.com/generic.htm

These are 2-butoxyethanol warnings I see on the pesticide exposure report. They can be inert ingredients and not identified specifically as long as hazard warnings are there. Defogging is the worst exposure as the eyes are a more serious route of exposure than even the skin.

Here is a chart to see if you have been checked for these health concerns: http://www.valdezlink.com/pages/why&howChart.htm Help your doctor all you can; give the symptoms you had of chemical exposure http://www.valdezlink.com/gwv/gws_too_much_chemicals.htm and ask that you have any additional test for blood damage, if not already done.

6 - Topic: Comments from those with insights on the chemical, 2-butoxyethanol or Diethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether posted December 02, 2003

2003 MSDS on 2-butoxyethanol summary of what to look for: valdezlink.com/pages/complete_blood_check.htm

Here is some information with charts to help you evaluate whether you have been affected by 2-butoxyethanol valdezlink.com/pages/chart.htm

More info here with research 'imbedded' valdezlink.com/generic.htm#research

Here is information on these chemical(s) valdezlink.com/same.htm

and comments I thought to be of interest by a medic complaining about 'borderline' being OK, when you're not OK valdezlink.com/pages/forum_borderline.htm As soon as I added my comment, the whole thread was deleted. (Didn't know it was sponsored by chemical companies or something.) Some good insights by CoCo Medic; I'm glad I inadvertently had saved his work.

7 - Topic: If you have been harmed by 2-butoxyethanol, what can you do about it? posted December 02, 2003

Best helps are to check with a toxicologist or have your doctor call experts in chemical testing. If there is some chemical residual in your body, the chemical test can detect it, and there are some schools of thought, such as Dr. Rea has, that you can flush it out of your system. They work with your immune system and help it work properly again, from what I've heard; however, I have no first hand knowledge of that.

I've compiled some helps here. valdezlink.com/pages/changes.htm

Here are some things you should look over valdezlink.com/gwv/gettingstarted.htm

8 - Topic: Today Concerns - Legislators' Comments

posted December 03, 2003

We invite the comments of concerned Legislators, our US Senators and US Representatitives.

If these chemicals have harmed our workers and our military in the past, they may still be harming our military today. Should these 2 chemicals be banned?

CAS 112-34-5 Diethylene glycol monobutyl ether [aka 2-(2-butoxy)ethanol] and
CAS 111-76-2 Ethylene glycol monobutyl ether [aka 2-butoxyethanol]

valdezlink.com/pages/ban.htm

What happened to Staff Sgt James Alford? valdezlink.com/alford.htm#note He is not an isolated case. If these chemicals have harmed him, maybe continued exposure is what made an extremely severe neurological diagnosis?

Did he have other medical things going on? That would be the key to knowing whether this chemical was the culprit. valdezlink.com/scenario.htm

Here are some results of testing this type of chemical for neurological effects: valdezlink.com/solvent_studies.htm

Ask the military to be on guard for their body signaling "too much chemicals" valdaezlink.com/gwv/gws_too_much_chemicals.htm

Legislators, you can help! valdezlink.com/gwv/canyouhelp.htm

Concerned? Contact Your US Senators and US Representative today! valdezlink.com/pages/howtocontact.htm

I wrote to mine! valdezlink.com/pages/murkowski.htm

If the exhaustion is because there is damage to red blood cells - info for your doctor - Things 2-butoxyethanol type chemicals do & how to find it out. valdezlink.com/pages/pass_on.htm

9 - Topic: Have the Symptoms, but don't know why?

posted December 03, 2003

Margaret,

Thanks for sharing this with me. I do have a question for you, are garden supplies… ie: fertilizers, and other common garden chemicals also carriers of this substance?

My daughter has been undergoing medical problems that seem to mirror many of the symptoms that you note. She worked for a company in TX and handled big bags of this stuff in the big stores… like Home Depot. She was hospitalized several times this last winter at the Base Hospital in Anchorage. The Docs diagnosed Kidney failure, and all kinds of other scary things. Then she would bounce back somewhat… only to turn yellow again and be back in the hospital. The Doctors were clue less, we expected her to die. She is 31 and still experiences some of the symptoms, but is better now than she was last spring. The Doctors were never able to give her a real diagnosis, or reason why she was so sick.

Can this be the caused by the same thing?
Thanks, Maggie

Maggie, that's a very good question. It wasn't the fertilizer that was the problem, Nitrogen or Phosphorus

On the other hand, the store would have sold weed killers or herbicides and pesticides? I would think that could be checked into. Especially the liquid or aerosol types. Agent Orange was a herbicide: dioxin, known now at least, to be cancer causing

Operation Ranch Hand - Herbicides in Southeast Asia http://cpcug.org/user/billb/ranchhand/ranchhand.html

It is also interesting to note that Inipol EAP 22, the experimental compound of 'bioremediation' was purported to be a fertilizer. Could anything be farther from the truth!? http://www.valdezlink.com/inipol/pages/chemicals.htm It was like 'Spray 'n Washing' the beaches with solvent/pesticide/poison in refined oil.

The chemicals we are concerned with (2-butoxyethanol, diethylene glycol monobutyl ether, ethylene oxide) are pesticides and are most harmful in aerosol spray or liquid.

Ask your daughter if she was in a warehouse of the liquid 'fertilizers' and whether or not the fumes were strong? Or whether or not any containers leaked & she got them on herself.

Ask your daughter what she was doing when her body showed signs of 'too much chemical'? http://www.valdezlink.com/pages/too_much_chemicals.htm
Read on down... there is good information at the bottom of this web page.

When she had blood work done, see how the red blood cells are doing http://www.valdezlink.com/check_blood.htm#retic Kidney and liver problems are not every day occurrences, except with 2-butoxyethanol. See if she has some of these exposures http://www.valdezlink.com/pages/watchout.htm
http://www.valdezlink.com/pages/to_share.htm

Did you daughter clean up at the store? Or does she do household cleaning a lot at home or anywhere? What does she use?

Margaret

Margaret, No she didn’t clean as such….. other than occasional sweeping as I remember her telling me. The company she was working for sold these 50lb bags of fertilizer and lawn products. She would stock and set up the displays at the ‘big box stores’. She was always handling these heavy things. She has always reveled in non-traditional jobs. She would out work men she supervised.

She says now when she cleans she DOES use 409. - Maggie

Maggie,

409 is the worst cleaner possible. http://www.valdezlink.com/pages/409msds.htm
It is a mini 'Corexit' which is the compound that harmed Slim. They just came out with a new version of 409 Cleaner, too; and it must have a worse concentration of the bad chemicals.

Tell her NOT to use it; and if she does - only with chemical retardant gloves, goggles and face shield and only in a ventilated area.

Margaret

PS Maggie,

I thought of another thing to ask your daughter

Does she remember times when her 'eyes' were burning and hurting... and the next morning an extreme exhaustion? OR Does she remember dark urine? (Red blood cells dying off) maybe even black urine?

12-5-03 Maggie, Was your daughter in the military?

More info, if so http://www.valdezlink.com/pages/pass_on.htm

Maggie's reply:
"Yes she does, eyes burning and watering.
She did have this in the last year, urine was black like coffee grounds……… but not at that time."

Margaret: OK, this is the KEY. What was she doing right at that time? ... Now for the long term effects to kick in, it has to be too much exposure to the point your body reflects the other symptoms of 2-butoxyethanol poisoning, such as http://www.valdezlink.com/scenario.htm

Don't expect much help from doctors. Our country hasn't studied this chemical. http://www.valdezlink.com/generic.htm#behind But there are plenty of opportunities to do so. Many people are harmed by 2-butoxyethanol.

http://www.valdezlink.com/pages/editor-cvv.htm

12-19-03 Daughter:9 "Yes, I remember all to well when my eyes started burning like there was hot pokers in them. It coincided with a VERY nasty stomach bug...vomiting, the runs...it was miserable. The day I got sick I had been rolling around in a very nasty store cleaning up the mess. (box account in Sugar Land, TX) That night I was so sick...took me 2 days to get the energy up to drag myself to the doctor's office & threw up all over it for him to tell me I had the flu."

Margaret: "These 'flu' like symptoms are also the signs of having too much chemical exposure of some kind."

"Now, what were you using to clean up?"

Is this painter showing signs of 2-butoxyethanol overexposure when he comes down with high blood sugar?

Author	10 - Topic: Ever Feel Like? (you could use a smile?)
Mother Margaret Moderator	posted December 04, 2003 valdezlink.com/fun/happydays.htm For Real - valdezlink.com/feel-print.htm reply here - topic temporarily removed

Author	11 - Topic: Do you think the Washington Post will print this? reply here - topic temporarily removed
Mother Margaret Moderator	posted December 05, 2003 http://www.valdezlink.com/troops_at_risk_washPost.htm Anyone interested may.

Author

12 - Topic: What Navy Ships? in Valdez in 1989? In Gulf War 1990-1991? In Washington, 1996?

Mother Margaret
Moderator

posted December 07, 2003

What Navy ships were sent to the Exxon Valdez oil spill cleanup?

The crew worked with Corexit then; even housekeepers and those who washed the gear - non military have serious health concerns today.

The Deluth was there
#39 was there valdezlink.com/hmm.htm#what

Do Navy ships make their own non-salt water?
One of the warnings of the chemicals such as 2-butoxyethanol is DO NOT GET in water, streams, etc.

What Navy Ships were used to transport military thereafter?

Where is Corexit 9527 in the military today?

Note from this article, the Navy shows more symptoms of Gulf War Syndrome than you would think? Why is that? ¹ Department of Defense Center for Deployment Health Research, Naval Health Research Center, San Diego, CA. Article

What was the Navy experimenting with in 1996 just north of Ocean Shores, Washington? Top secret at the time. Maybe they were spilling oil and 'cleaning it up' with dispersants. The USA can't do that, but I suppose the military can do anything. One woman since then has had allergies she never had before, her thyroid swelled up; her blood sugar dropped; she started collapsing; her heart racing. Not before this, but after her landscaping job in the area ... So ... sounds to me like they were using 2-butoxyethanol: she should be checked for hemolytic anemia including liver function and Retic ratio; endocrine disruption is obvious. Is this non classified today? What the navy was experimenting with there in 1996?

* *

^{Maybe
this is because they were dumping Corexit in the ocean to help
promo a bad product, 1996? I hear the military can test
what they want, whereas the US prohibits spilling oil on purpose
to practice cleaning up, as Europe allows}

^{(No
wonder the European seals are 'unexplainably' dying off) http://www.valdezlink.com/mammals_demise_theory.htm}

^{No
wonder the}^{sea
ice}^{is melting and the ocean
salinity
is changing, too}

^{www.valdezlink.com/dear_editor.htm}^{mini version of}^{www.valdezlink.com/letter_to_editor.htm}

Author

13 - Topic: Joint Pain - Do you have an accurate diagnosis?

reply here - topic temporarily removed

Mother Margaret
Moderator

posted December 07, 2003

I was wondering whether any with the odd mix of symptoms we call "Gulf War Syndrome" has an accurate diagnosis for JOINT PAIN?

Two young ladies who worked the second year of the Exxon Valdez oil spill cleanup (& the baby born to one later) have been diagnosed with rheumatoid arthritis. The lady I spoke with recently, in her 30's is so crippled in her hands and feet that it is an effort to do anything.

When I first heard 'joint pain' for the EVOS group, there was a comment on Larry King by Robert Urich -2002- that he had a rare form of joint cancer, synovial cell sarcoma: cancer of the joints. www.valdezlink.com/inipol/pages/cancer.htm In that interview he made a passing comment that as a young man he worked in a steel mill. So, I've been wondering what chemicals affect workers in that industry.

Author

prior 14 - Topic: What cancers are prevalent? reply here - topic temporarily removed

Mother Margaret
Moderator

posted December 07, 2003

For those with the symptoms of "Gulf War Syndrome http://www.valdezlink.com/generic.htm What cancers are showing up?

Sadly, though it is known that too much exposures to chemicals, in general, cause cancer, the USA hasn't studied such for 2-butoxyethanol? ... nor do they know whether or not there are birth defects and reproductive damage, either?

I find this hard to believe that a nation such as ours would be so behind the times. http://www.valdezlink.com/generic.htm#behind

Among the list of diagnosis Gulf War vets have had, it is 'silent' on what kinds of cancers are showing up? http://www.valdezlink.com/gwv/complete.htm

What is the short list?

For the painters, you hear of bone cancer and prostate cancer.

For EVOS, several have Chronic Lymphocydic Leukemia; leukemia; there is stomach cancer; melanoma (?) (Much kidney failure)

For Gulf War vets, what?

VeteransHistoryChannel.com - Persian Gulf military Discussion Forum

Subject That's a hard one, isn't it?

Posted by Mother Margaret

Posted on 12/16/03

Without being in your shoes, no one can really know how you feel. and then ... how do you go on?

Sometimes life just doesn't seem fair; many people think that praying ... letting God have vengeance ... is the best approach. Forgiving is important, Otherwise you destroy yourself. Not that the offending party shouldn't be held accountable, they should.

Someone in our family was harmed by the 2-butoxyethanol chemicals when he was first out of high school. Seems so unfair when you make right decisions growing up; and then get 'blind-sided' Not given all the information to do what I know he would have done otherwise, "No way, Hosea, I'm out of here" This chemical was known to cause blood damage, kidney and liver damage by reporters, but 1,000 bioremediation workers of the Exxon Valdez oil spill cleanup were sequestered 2-3 weeks at a time away from family and friends. *

He was the kind of young man that said to the partiers, "No, I can't go with you. I have to study and then I have to get my rest for the hockey game tomorrow."

So, with the exhaustion of the resultant low red blood cell anemia, he says, "I am not going to waste my time in futile battles; I am not going to live in bitterness; I choose to see the glass as half full instead of half empty." valdezlink.com/evos/oct.htm#person

Later a friend shared with me information on how to forgive, step by step. She was writing it to a pastor's wife who became bitter over a church dispute and was becoming a different person because of it. valdezlink.com/pages/tulip.htm
This 'No Regrets' Poem is thought provoking, too.
valdezlink.com/inipol/pages/no_regrets.htm

Subject A more probable cause of Gulf War Syndrome - Today's Troops at risk

Posted by Mother Margaret

Posted on 12/16/03

Do you have any 'Gulf War Syndrome' symptoms? Or know anyone who does? Can you get this info to today's military

There is a more likely cause of Gulf War syndrome than what has been explored so far. (& today's troops are still at risk!)

There is a lot of information here

valdezlink.com/gwv1-5.htm

and valdezlink.com/evos/feel_print.htm

Symptoms valdezlink.com/gwv/gws_too_much_chemicals.htm

valdezlink.com/gwv/look_further.htm

valdezlink.com/pages/pass_on.htm

Merry Christmas
12-16-03

How to Find a Doctor - Some Thoughts

Chad Pagel of Indiana asked for a survey for you

I will work one up. First, was there a time you can remember when your eyes were burning and watering and then your urine turned darker than normal, brown or even black? ... and at that very time an extreme exhaustion that gets worse & which stays with you?

Think back to what you were doing at that time; then check the Material Safety Data Sheet on what the hazardous ingredients were in whatever you were using. It could be something as simple as cleaning your gun or 'decontaminating' a tank? Or cleaning your bathroom at home.

Here is a background page on anatomy affected valdezlink.com/pages/massmurder.htm by the chemical that causes all the effects of Gulf War Syndrome. valdezlink.com/gwv/1-5.htm At the very least, it makes more sense to line up your symptoms against what 2-butoxyethanol is supposed to do vs organophosphates. valdezlink.com/gwv/deareditor.htm

Even doctors are in the group that think there is nothing wrong with you. I am so sorry.

A soldier's wish was shared with me today, so I am sharing it with you. valdezlink.com/pages/a_soldier.htm and it is on the Merry Christmas web page, too. valdezlink.com/pages/MerryChristmas.htm

12-17-03

GULF WAR CRISIS
A Nation Which Forgets It's Defenders Will Itself Be Forgotten

GULF WAR CRISIS Forum Index -> Gulf War Syndrome

Author

Message facts

Mother

Margaret
moderator

Joined: 26 Nov 2003
Posts: 22
Location:

Valdez, Alaska

Dec 18, 2003 You can get the FACTS

You can get the facts on what happened to you. The key is what is going on with your blood. You will look like the one you worked next to http://www.valdezlink.com/evos/look_like.htm Says a Persian Gulf Soldier - ...." I was a frontline soldier and all the soldiers who are complaining about having GWS are from the rear echelon gwv/.." So, my question, What happened differently for these soldiers than for the frontline soldiers? Did they use jeeps? tanks? did they have the job of cleaning guns? (Help me out here) Did they decontaminate equipment? http://www.valdezlink.com/gwv/chad4.htm You can get the facts. www.valdezlink.com/gwv/facts.htm There are known sources of exposure to this chemical; I believe unknown sources, too. _________________ Are there any helps for you here? www.valdezlink.com/pages/changes.htm There are suggestions on MDs who are also expert in toxicology or chemical effects - for your doctor to consult with. Other recommendations?

Dec 19, 2003 known

Troops did have exposure to 2-butoxyethanol

But what does the military KNOW of? What do they NOT know of?

The National Academy of Sciences, in their 2003 book, "Gulf War and Health" Vol 2, p. 612, the page on Insecticides and Solvents www.valdezlink.com/gwv/media-gws/Gulf_War.pdf mentions these 2 chemicals as being used at that time: http://www.valdezlink.com/same.htm

So what were the known sources?

And what proprietary ingredients might be as well? Such as CLP? ... Bore cleaner? Although thought to be safe, you will note that warnings say for repetitive use to use goggles, wear chemical retardant gloves; do not get in water; that they are linear hydrocarbons. I can't ask a company what their proprietary ingredient is, but the US Government had better. http://www.valdezlink.com/clp.htm

Dept of Defense, Look Further! http://www.valdezlink.com/gwv/look_further.htm

Here is a non-military comment from someone whom I believe to have had this type of exposure. My question: "Do you remember when it was that you had burning eyes and urine turning dark? ... and extreme exhaustion all at one time? ... and what you were doing then?"

(from Maggie's daughter) 12-19-03 Daughter: "Yes, I remember all to well when my eyes started burning like there was hot pokers in them. It coincided with a VERY nasty stomach bug...vomiting, the runs...it was miserable. The day I got sick I had been rolling around in a very nasty store cleaning up the mess. (box account in Sugar Land, TX) That night I was so sick...took me 2 days to get the energy up to drag myself to the doctor's office & threw up all over it for him to tell me I had the flu."

Margaret: "These 'flu' like symptoms are also the signs of having too much chemical exposure of some kind." valdezlink.com/gwv/gws_too_much_chemicals.htm

"Now, what were you using to clean up?"

Mother Margaret
moderator

Nov 2003
Valdez, Alaska

Dec 20, 2003
Why do you think this chemical?

What Exposures to troops??

An overview: http://www.valdezlink.com/gwv/why2B.htm

And how to go about finding out for sure? http://www.valdezlink.com/pages/helps.htm
What bug/fly control did you use?

And for those who were spraying for pests (or was it just using bug/fly protection?) This report http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/pest_final/pest_final_s02.htm#IIA Last paragraph in section B/Pesticide Exposures states,

"Preventive medicine personnel who apply certain pesticide sprays and fogs are required to use the appropriate personal protective equipment, which may include boots, gloves, coveralls, goggles and respirators. The required protection depends on the pesticide applied. During the Gulf War, in some cases, soldiers did not use appropriate personal protective equipment"

These would be the warnings given with 2-butoxyethanol chemical. They do state in this April 17, 2003 Final report on pesticide exposures to Gulf War troops, (II. SUMMARY A. Why We Investigated Pesticides) that there are carbonate pesticides.

Questions: "What disclosed ingredients did they have? Were any stated as proprietary and therefore undisclosed? If so, what were the warnings for use on the product?" This page will be updated with the reply when received.

This is the structural formula for 2-butoxyethanol:
C6H14O2/CH3(CH2)2CH2OCH2CH2OH

for 2(2-butoxyeathanol) or diethylene glycol monobutyl ether:
C8H18O3 / CH2(CH2)3OCH2CH2OCH2CH2OH
DGME is what it sometimes goes by: Diethylene Glycol Monobutyl Ether

Same topic restate here http://www.valdezlink.com/gwv6-14.htm#here

What kinds of things should be checked out? Should this chemical be banned?

Here are facts of a chemical that causes the package of 'Gulf War Syndrome' Symptoms posted veterans.historychannel.com topic

Please note these facts: the military lists these chemicals 2-butoxyethanol and diethylene glycol monobutyl ether as pesticides troops were exposed to.

Please note that carbonate pesticides were used to protect against flies/bugs. The warnings noted in an April 17, 2003 study give the warnings that go along with 2-butoxyethanol use.

Same is true for CLP and Bore cleaner... when there is repetitive use.

Somewhere in the military there is a 'oil dispersant' that was called Corexit 9527. This is 38% 2-butoxyethanol and may still have ethylene oxide. (NOT SAFE)

Lysol tub 'n tile and 409 cleaner are also NOT SAFE

Troops need to be aware of all sources of 2-butoxyethanol exposure as exposure bioaccumulates. All people need to be careful of these chemicals whether or not in the military.

Since these warnings were on some products, they should not be used, because no appropriate protective equipment could be used:

http://www.gulflink.osd.mil/pest_final/pest_final_s02.htm#IIA Last paragraph in section B/Pesticide Exposures states,

"Preventive medicine personnel who apply certain pesticide sprays and fogs are required to use the appropriate personal protective equipment, which may include boots, gloves, coveralls, goggles and respirators. The required protection depends on the pesticide applied. During the Gulf War, the use of personal protective equipment by applicators varied depending on several factors, including availability, serviceability, and whether the applicator followed the guidance. In some cases, applicators did not use appropriate personal protective equipment"

12-20-03

I read somewhere that DEET is the only pesticide for bugs now approved; that others lost their registration with EPA?

This however, would have been under the discussion of organophosphates, and 2-butoxyethanol is NOT an organophosphate.

Troops have more exposure to some pesticides than you might think

12-21-03